Radio PLRC 1

"Good evening to all who listen to us at home. Today, the guest of our broadcast will be professor Tomasz Wilhelmi... Our previous conversation was very popular among our listeners, we received thousands of e-mails in which our station was asked to invite you again." (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"Glad to hear that and good evening to everyone." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"I must admit that I was surprised by this turn of events myself, but we are here for our audience... So what's the truth, a hero or a villain?" (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"As I said on a previous broadcast, definitely a villain." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"I understand, but many of our listeners, and not only them, raised interesting questions. One of them was Jazłowiecki's openness to others, thousands of people found refuge in Podolia and not only there, when they were fleeing persecution in the Ottoman Empire." (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"Religious freedom was something normal in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, it was not something that only Jazłowiecki practiced. Unfortunately, Poles are characterized by romanticism and messianism. We focus on a few positive things, forgetting the hundreds of crimes that Jazłowiecki has committed, and I'm not talking about the standards of today, but the standards of that time." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"I don't know if there are people who contradict Jazłowiecki's bloody practice, but they also see the good things he did. Like the release of 20,000 Christian slaves from the Ottoman Empire, for which Pope Urban VIII rewarded him." (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"For each of his good deeds I can point to a few crimes, like slavery. He was rewarded by Pope Urban VIII, and was almost excommunicated by another Pope." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"Slavery? This is the first time I hear about it and professor, let's be serious. The excommunication argument proves the opposite. Jazłowiecki challenged the power of the Catholic church more than once and achieved what he wanted." (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"Of course, it was not slavery, in the normal sense of the word, but there are court sentences from the 17th century, where most penalties for offenses, even minor ones, were converted into forced labor, often for life. So it's a form of slavery." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"Those who faced the death penalty were rather pleased... but we will leave this topic. Writer, scientist, commander, ruler, husband and father..." (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"Scandalist... Jerzy Ossolinski wrote in letters to the country about Jazłowiecki's behavior when he was an emissary to the Kingdom of England. He offended King Charles, on the first days, and a few days later he demolished one of the royal palaces while drunk." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"If I remember correctly, the King of England took it all as a good joke." (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"It's true, but certain behaviors are not befitting someone who represents the country on the international stage." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"Do you really find nothing worth praising in Jazłowiecki?" (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"I am a historian and I try to be objective. Theater in Warsaw, Bathory's Column, raising the level of education in the country, although there is also a great merit of Sunday schools... and probably nothing more." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"Changing the subject, your new book will be published soon..." (Rudolf Bojczuk)

"Yes, in less than two weeks. It covers the life and career of a man who was hated by half of Europe." (Tomasz Wilhelmi)

"It's a bit of a strong statement, the enemies did not love him, but even now in Moldova, Bohemia or Hungary, streets, squares and monuments are named after him... I just got the information from our producer that our today's show is about to end. As always, it was a pleasure talking to you, although I don't like playing the role of the devil's advocate. I invite our listeners next week for a conversation with another interesting guest, as for now there is nothing else for me to do but to wish our listeners good night and good luck." (Rudolf Bojczuk)