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Creative Writing

HBO WI: Joffrey from Game of Thrones replaced with Octavian from Rome

Thread starterHotpoint

Start dateJan 31, 2016

Tagsa song of ice and fire asoiaf crossover game of thrones rome westeros

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tkioz

Rabid Bunyip

Sep 7, 2022

#3,701

Asheram said:

On the subject of beer and clean water, I do hope that'll be a long-term project of his. Gifting water fountains to the lower classes is a surefire way to get the public behind him.

There is a very good reason why Jaehaerys and Alysanne are remembered as the best Targaryen monarchs, built roads, enforced order, and built "the queen's fountains" in King's Landing. Unfortunately their successors really didn't do shit to keep things rolling.

Deathchill

Sep 7, 2022

#3,702

(Tywin)AHH!!! the feelings the burn!!. Great chapter.

drakensis

Certified Evil

Sep 7, 2022

#3,703

Octavian wasn't a good general but he was broadly quite good at keeping a large military force loyal to himself. That suggests he at least had the normal broad (if shallow) military experience of any high born Roman, and was good at picking out people to promote to handle things he had neither time, talent or inclination for. He spent time in war camps, he would have seen the legions training.

kclcmdr

Kai The Kmpire!

Adviser (CrW)

Sep 7, 2022

#3,704

Joffrey is perhaps creating his cadre of City Guard Virgiles and then once he sees whom can adapt, lead and fight well..

(and be trainable & in turn train others)

Trained them to become Ad-hoc Centurions ??

if fact.. as for the Tywin factor..

Whom is watching over Cersei and keeping a close watch over Jaime?

Is it Genna and/or Kevin at Casterly Rock? The two yuk-yuks needs monitoring so that Tywin doesn't get too annoy with them...

Tywin is only just now slightly mellowing out a tad bit.

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Hotpoint..SB CF..CH_03k - Part XXXVII; BeatTheDrum, RiotControl, Tywin&Joffrey, LaminateShields, CityWatch, hugs

drkstr

Crazy Eddie

Sep 7, 2022

#3,705

Its been said before but he is going to need an Agrippa analogue at some point

UberIguana

You are now breathing manually

Sep 7, 2022

#3,706

drkstr said:

Its been said before but he is going to need an Agrippa analogue at some point

The obvious candidate is Robb. He's both talented and politically trustworthy, in large part due to the fact Joctavian is marrying his sister. Wonder what he'll think about the gods' sense of humour regarding the parallels there.

auraofcalm

Subscriber

Sep 7, 2022

#3,707

Lmao Tywin just not knowing what to do with all these feels is one of the best things about this story.

gadeel

Grimderp, as always.

Sep 7, 2022

#3,708

Sir Omega said:

nor was it common for them to slum it with the plebes or the common soldiery (show Titus Pullo notwithstanding) in the manner of Marcus Aurelius and Julius Caesar, both iterations being patricians through and through.

He kinda did though? He was actually pretty famous for it in ways his own uncle wasn't.

It's obviously not out of the goodness of his heart, it's because any power-hungry player in Rome's political arena knew that the people and the legions were the keys to power, and Octavian was a PR master who cultivated the image of a man so concerned for the people that he'd reduce monuments made in his honor to look more austere and to use the silver to give to the Republic.

Besides which, he was born a pleb. He and his family were elevated to patrician status by Uncle Gaius only after he impressed the man so much he was secretly made heir. They did trace their lineage to an old Roman king, for all the good that did in a place so anti-monarchy as Republican Rome. The name of the game was all about wealth and personal prestige.

Anyway, back to the people.

That stunt he did where he distributed money to the citizenry? He did do that, probably even made some noise about giving it out himself and not actually doing so like in the show. After his judicial reforms, he regularly spent time with the people and presided over trials to show off how just he was. He allowed the people to petition him directly (not really, but he made an office so it looked like he did).

There's even an anecdote of him taking personal interest in some minor legal squabble over in Greece, that's how well he cultivated this reputation. There's another one about some ravens he bought, which ended with even better PR for him.

As for the soldiery, It's also kind of expected for a legatus and imperator. Even though he sucked at it pretty badly, Octavian was there in the field with his men. How he got them firmly on his side was that a lot of the money he moved around went to their pensions and land purchased for them (a lot of which were unjustly confiscated and very poorly planned, the funds for which were also heinously sourced, but it did secure their loyalty).

For these acts, among other things, he had so much goodwill and support that his power base was locked in with just minimal supervision and even the famine caused by Sextus Pompey's blockade didn't manage to turn the people against him. The legions (including Caesar's veterans) were firmly on his side (he even won over the ones that initially sided with Antonius) and brought him great victories (when commanded well by Agrippa, that is).

Precisely why he went to such lengths to win them over.

So I don't think it'd be weird for him to be like this with his men.

drkstr said:

Its been said before but he is going to need an Agrippa analogue at some point

He also needs a Maecenas, but this one isn't really urgent.

Last edited: Sep 8, 2022

Rastamon

Vis Imperium Totus Galaxia

Moderator

He/Him/His

Sep 8, 2022

#3,709

drkstr said:

Its been said before but he is going to need an Agrippa analogue at some point

Agreed. That's Octavian's MO. He clearly intended Agrippa to be his successor. Westerosi succession laws don't allow adoption, though.

UberIguana said:

Agreed. Robb is ideal. Also, wouldn't Oberyn Martell remind Joctavian too much of Marc Antony?

Daenerys may be the Cleopatra expy in his mind. Especially if he somehow discovers the secret Martell alliance with either her or Faegon (since this is TV version, he doesn't exist).

UberIguana

You are now breathing manually

Sep 8, 2022

#3,710

gadeel said:

Besides which, he was born a pleb. He and his family were elevated to patrician status by Uncle Gaius only after he impressed the man so much he was secretly made heir.

This is HBO's Rome Octavian, not the historical one. Probably for the best considering show Octavian's experience with wrangling unreliable mothers.

Rastamon said:

Daenerys may be the Cleopatra expy in his mind. Especially if he somehow discovers the secret Martell alliance with either her or Faegon (since this is TV version, he doesn't exist).

I don't think he'd be actively drawing parallels with his life in Rome. Octavian is smart enough to know just because something has similarities he can't expect it to end up resembling in his first life. Trying to do so could end up with him making unwarranted assumptions.

Rastamon

Vis Imperium Totus Galaxia

Moderator

He/Him/His

Sep 8, 2022

#3,711

UberIguana said:

Maybe. He can draw upon the lessons he learned from fighting her.

Joker Games 1999

Sep 8, 2022

#3,712

we know that Octavian becomes Emperor

But how did he manage to restructure Westeros and break the status quo, leading to a union and possible centralization of power, ending feudalism?

rx915

Sep 8, 2022

#3,713

Joker Games 1999 said:

we know that Octavian becomes Emperor

But how did he manage to restructure Westeros and break the status quo, leading to a union and possible centralization of power, ending feudalism?

Ice demons allowed him to do it?

drakensis

Certified Evil

Sep 9, 2022

#3,714

Bear in mind that the Roman Empire of Octavian's day was a mish-mash of directly governed provinces, allies, kingdoms in various stages of subordination... that doesn't need to go away even if he becomes an Emperor and starts fixing the bits he disapproves of.

mrGreen

Sep 10, 2022

#3,715

bissek said:

If King's Landing is as filthy as its reputed to be, small beer is probably the drink of choice for the small folk anyway: they don't have Roman aqueducts, so the local water is likely undrinkable without alcohol to sterilize it.

It's not possible to brew that much beer with medieval methods. Now factor in poverty and you'll find that this hypothesis doesn't work in practice.

The drink of choice will still be water.

Espacially since adding a bit of small beer to a bunch of water won't be enough to properly sterilize it anyways.

Threadmarks Part XXXVIII New

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Hotpoint

Fanfic Writer

Sep 13, 2022

#3,716

Part XXXVIII

----------

"Don't let her beauty lead you astray. That woman's quim is dark and full of terrors."

Anonymous warning given of the Lady Melisandre of Asshai

----------

The Broken Anvil Inn - King's Landing – 299 AC

Melisandre had not actually needed to eat for many years, the Lord of Light provided all the sustenance she required, but it was important for people not to realise just how different she really was to normal folk. As a result she made absolutely sure that she was publicly witnessed consuming a meal at least a couple of times every week, hence her presence at the Inn that afternoon.

It was not difficult to make sure she was noticed, she tended to provoke strong reactions in the people around her, typically wariness or desire but occasionally mere intrigue or simple curiosity. Whereas Red Priests and Priestesses were a common enough sight in Essos that they could pass on by ignored that was far from the situation on this side of the Narrow Sea. Therefore, as Melisandre wandered the streets and alleys of King's Landing, with her flaming red hair and dress to match, eyes and whispered gossip always followed her passage.

Such was her notoriety that there was now apparently a red-headed whore in one of the expensive brothels on the Street of Silk who had taken to wearing a similar dress to Melisandre, albeit one showing rather more cleavage, the harlot doing a roaring trade play-acting as the "Red Witch" for her clientele. The Faith of R'hllor was not puritanical about sex in the slightest, you could even find temple prostitutes amongst their ranks, thus Melisandre wasn't quite sure if she should be aggrieved and demand this be stopped or should instead seek out this 'Ros' woman and insist upon a percentage of the take because the strumpet was raking in good coin off free advertising.

Melisandre sat alone at her table at the Inn situated by a window, occasionally looking out towards the so-called 'Gate of the Gods' set in the city wall nearby and suppressing her urge to go out and preach that the deities depicted upon it were false. She yearned to testify before the masses that only R'hllor was the truth, that the Septs of the Faith of the Seven and the Weirwoods of the Old Gods should be burned, and that all must serve the Lord of light, but to actually do so had to remain naught but a pleasant dream.

If she actually followed her instincts to proselytise and call for the idolators to be struck down however then Azor Ahai would surely have her gagged, bound and then thrown onto the next ship heading to Essos. She therefore held her tongue for now, certain that the time would come when King Joffrey would embrace the light of R'hllor and accept his role as champion of the one true god. On that wondrous and joyful day Melisandre vowed she would personally set the Great Sept of Baelor aflame, although first making sure to slap the shit out of that bitch Septa Unella, one of the Council of the Most Devout, who had repeatedly accused her of dressing like a cheap trollop.

The woman clearly had no idea how much a properly tailored dress like this actually cost. Perhaps unsurprising given that Septas tended to look like they were draped in last week's rumpled laundry, the Red Priestess decided.

Melisandre was being watched intently of course, not only by those in the employ of Varys 'The Spider' who kept her under near-constant observation, but also the other patrons of the Inn. Every so often she deliberately caught the eye of one of them as they directed a wary look in her direction and she smiled back at them in a manner that they likely found extremely disconcerting.

It was perhaps strange that while most other forms of entertainment had lost their lustre over the years making grown men shudder as the hairs stood up on the back of their necks was still good for a chuckle, if only inwardly of course.

A few days past Melisandre's meal-as-masquerade had been a deeply uninspiring bowl of broth purchased in a somewhat disreputable place near the harbour, and two days before that it had been some unidentifiable meat served on a piece of bread sold by a stall in Cobbler's Square, but the ribs of wild boar set on the plate before her now were something else entirely and took her mind away from her musings. It was the first meal that had passed her lips in quite some time that wasn't merely a chore necessitated by deception.

The meat itself was of good quality and more importantly it tasted like fire.

Well not fire exactly, but the sauce poured over the ribs had been very heavily spiced with Dragon Peppers from Dorne and Melisandre couldn't help but think to herself that the peppers must be another gift to humanity from the Lord of Light. The burning on her tongue was somehow delicious as they imitated holy cleansing flame, a culinary glamour of sorts she found herself thinking of it, drawing a metaphor with some of her own tricks and talents.

The Great Other was probably responsible for spinach, she decided, taking another bite of meat from off the boar rib in her hand, smearing some more of the thick, rich sauce onto her face in the process.

It was certainly not a meal that could be consumed with any great decorum, but it wasn't as if she was currently trying to impress anyone. She wasn't really a highborn lady, the title was merely honorary, an affectation that served to provide a veneer of respectability as she moved in the uppermost circles of Westerosi society. In fact pretending to be such was almost as tiring spiritually as having to wear her necklace for extended periods of time was physically. Sometimes you just needed to relax and unwind, be that in the form of a long hot bath or simply a good meal.

Melisandre closed her eyes and savoured the latest bite as she tried to remember the last time she had so enjoyed a repast.

"Valar morghulis" a woman's voice interrupted her train of thought. The pronunciation of the High Valyrian was near flawless but with a taint of Volantene to the accent, mixed with something more Eastern.

Melisandre opened her eyes which widened with surprise before she swallowed so hard she nearly choked. "Valar dohaeris" she practically gasped in return as she found herself looking at another Priestess of R'hllor clad in red, the woman strikingly attractive as they all tended to be but unusually in this case with the facial structure and skin-tone of the Yi Tish.

The other priestess had a small tattoo under one eye, the involuntary branding of a tear marked high upon her cheek showing she had once been a slave prostitute in Volantis, presumably before she was purchased by the Temple and trained to spread the word of the Lord of Light.

"Melisandre of Asshai. I come here on behalf of Kinvara, High Priestess of the Red Temple of Volantis, the Flame of Truth, the Light of Wisdom, and First Servant of the Lord of Light to inform you that you are the subject of a formal investigation into your conduct" the priestess announced haughtily, switching from High Valyrian to the Westerosi Common Tongue, presumably because she wanted others in the Inn to understand what she was saying. "Said investigation to be carried out by myself. You may address me as Zēa of Jinqi, or simply Zēa if you prefer" she continued. "Here are my credentials" she added, producing a tightly wrapped scroll secured with a red wax seal from a pocket inside her wide sleeves.

Looking near as surprised as she felt Melisandre stood up and reached to take the scroll but the other priestess suddenly pulled it away from her. "You may wish to wipe your hands clean first" she suggested, her facial expression unreadable although Melisandre could read the amusement in her eyes.

Melisandre snatched up a cloth and hurriedly began to wipe the dragon-pepper sauce from her fingers. This was not the best first impression she had made. "How did you find me?" she asked.

"It wasn't difficult" the priestess 'Zēa' replied. "I started at the harbour where I arrived this morning and simply asked people if they had seen you as I made my way through the city" she explained. "I was misdirected towards a brothel at one point. Did you know there was a whore dressing up as you?" she asked curiously.

"Yes" Melisandre replied as she continued to clean her hands and then face.

Zēa nodded. "I assume you insisted upon her paying a tithe for the privilege then?"

"No" Melisandre replied awkwardly after a short pause.

The other Priestess of R'hllor frowned. "That is a simply unacceptable" she stated firmly. "I'll go see her myself."

"If you go there then I'd wager they'll likely try and find a girl from Yi Ti to dress up as you as well" Melisandre warned.

"In that case they can both pay a tithe" Zēa stated firmly as she finally handed over the roll of parchment.

After removing the wax seal and unrolling the scroll if Melisandre had any prior doubts that it actually was from Kinvara then the very first line of Valyrian glyphs dispelled them. It wasn't so much the beautiful calligraphy, though even as a young acolyte Kinvara always had excellent handwriting, it was that nobody else in the world would ever refer to her as 'Melony' for the simple reason that everyone else that knew Melisandre's real name had died well over three centuries ago. Even Melisandre herself barely remembered being Melony some days, although being sold into slavery as Melony, or more precisely 'Lot Seven' at the slave auction, was somewhat harder to forget.

Melisandre read through the scroll trying not to let her own emotions show but roughly half-way through she snapped. "Not seeing the big picture? Losing my touch as I get older?!" she suddenly exclaimed in High Valyrian, causing Zēa to raise her eyebrows. "She's all of six years younger than I am" she grumbled, not adding aloud that a mere half-dozen years when you were both old enough to have lived through the Century of Blood was an utter triviality.

"From what she told me I believe one concern she has is that you need to see things through the lens of politics not merely that of faith" Zēa suggested, herself switching back to High Valyrian again. "The example she gave was that we would not have prospered and so greatly expanded our influence and numbers in Volantis if we had antagonised those of the Old Blood before we had a chance to establish ourselves."

"Politics" Melisandre repeated the word distastefully before reading on.

The second half of the scroll was mostly Kinvara pointing out that Melisandre had always been accorded great leeway in her course of action, had even been permitted to skirt heresy on occasion, but that didn't mean she was given an entirely free rein. Her many, many years of loyal service to the Lord of light meant she was respected and admired but didn't mean she could entirely disregard concerns other than her own.

Someone had apparently sent a formal letter of complaint to the Temple that Melisandre's zeal, particularly her actions in burning statues of the Seven on Dragonstone, had made the people of Westeros hostile to the Faith of R'hllor and that her very presence impeded the chances of recruiting new converts there.

Until now any such complaint would have been dismissed, Melisandre's near-unparalleled gift of prophecy had always accorded her such protection because she was proven right in the end so often, but after having so vociferously proclaimed that Stannis Baratheon was Azor Ahai reborn her inexplicably sudden change-of-heart to declaring Joffrey the Prince that was Promised instead had done her reputation no favours whatsoever.

Nobody expected infallibility as regards prophecy, they were always unclear and enigmatic at best, but switching horses that abruptly meant her judgement was now being questioned. Kinvara felt she had to make a show of investigating the complaint and she was at least apologetic about it.

The source of the complaint was unnamed but there was only one person who it could have been. Only a formal grievance raised by another member of the clergy could have reached that high in the organisation.

Melisandre mouthed an obscenity and began rolling up the scroll as she sat back down. "You'll have my full cooperation, but we'll need to go somewhere first" she told the other priestess. "If you're hungry or want something to quench your thirst you should order it here" she advised. "The quality where we're going next won't be near as high. I heartily recommend the boar ribs in dragon-pepper sauce" she said, putting the scroll away before resuming her meal in a considerably worse mood than she had been in only a few minutes earlier.

Three hours later on the other side of town in a winesink in Flea Bottom Anguy, usually known as Anguy the Archer, was contemplating his cup of vinegar that purported to be wine. "Why in the Seven Hells are we drinking here?" he asked his companion. "I've still got enough coin left from my Tourney winnings to pay for a tankard or two at a half-way decent Inn on Weasel Alley at least."

"Because she already knows the other places I drink at" Thoros of Myr replied dejectedly, adding a drop of rum from his personal flask into his own cup to try and improve the flavour. "I still can't see how you managed to drink and fuck your way through ten thousand dragons that fast, you could have lived comfortably on that the rest of your life with that much, and your children's lives for that matter, bought a farm or a fancy tavern of your own."

"Expensive tastes" Anguy explained, grimacing as he sipped from his cup.

"You mean a taste for very expensive whores don't you?" Thoros corrected him knowingly.

Anguy shrugged. "Well that and I wanted to see what it was like to bathe in Arbor Wine with one of them while two more fed me grapes" he replied. "Memorable, for the record" he added, grinning. "Of course, if I'd known that King Robert was going to die and there weren't going to be any more archery tourneys to win with absurd prizes I'd have probably been more careful with my money" he admitted sadly. "You've won a few melee tournaments yourself, why aren't you rich?"

"Expensive tastes" Thoros joked. "And I'm richer than you are" he pointed out. "Despite the number of swords I get through winning them" he added. That was one problem with coating them in wildfire and setting them ablaze for effect, it absolutely ruined the steel.

Anguy snorted. "Saying you're richer than me is like boasting you're taller than Tyrion Lannister" he retorted. "Bugger" he suddenly said, spotting who had just walked in. "looks like you'll need to find an even bigger shithole of a place to drown your sorrows in" he told Thoros apologetically.

Thoros looked over in the direction Anguy was indicating and groaned as he saw Melisandre of Asshai. She did not look best pleased either. "It's like being married without any of the benefits, all of the nagging and other miseries, no darning of socks or sex whatsoever" he complained.

"Maybe the other one will be more obliging" Anguy suggested as to the surprise of both men a second Red Priestess now appeared following on behind Melisandre, the whole clientele and staff of the winesink now stopping whatever they were doing and staring.

Melisandre stomped across the room, people scattering to get out of her way as she did so. That woman was bloody terrifying.

Both Thoros and Anguy scrambled to their feet as the priestesses arrived at their table.

"I know it was you that sent a complaint about me to the Temple in Volantis" Melisandre declared, glaring at Thoros. "It reached the High Priestess herself!"

"And yet somehow you didn't predict it happening" Thoros replied, smugly. "I imagine that you're here as an Inquisitor to investigate her behaviour" he addressed the other priestess feeling more than a little smug. "A pleasure to make your acquaintance."

"You have been here years and yet the heathen continue to slaughter each other while they worship their false idols, meanwhile the number of people you've converted can be counted on the fingers of one head" Zēa responded sardonically. "I'm here to investigate both of you in the name of the First Servant of the Lord of Light" she announced.

Thoros blinked. "You're what?" he responded in surprise.

"Ha!" Melisandre exclaimed gleefully. "The comeuppance of the drunken whoremonger arrives swiftly!"

Feeling like he should really be removing himself from the situation forthwith Anguy couldn't help but make comment before he did so, looking from one woman in a red dress to the other. "So if I'm right your religion finds the prettiest girls to train as priestesses and the ugliest blokes as priests" he checked with Thoros for confirmation.

Thoros turned to his friend, narrowing his eyes as he did so. "Fuck off Anguy" he replied curtly.

----------

Note from the Author:

Melisandre is less, or perhaps more, than human. She doesn't feel the cold and as per the books she doesn't even need to eat any more (but does to seem less different). Her liking Dragon Peppers for the fiery taste just seemed amusing.

Although unnamed in the show the Red Priestess of Yi Tish ethnicity, Zēa of Jinqi, is seen in Volantis in episode 5x03 (Zēa means Jade in High Valyrian, it seemed apt if a little unimaginative on my part perhaps). She has been dispatched to Westeros by High Priestess Kinvara to investigate complaints made about Melisandre by Thoros of Myr. He thinks she's a obsessive fanatic, she thinks he's a drunken apostate and they're both right.

Kinvara is a little young in appearance for her position as High Priestess and First Servant, unless you're of the opinion that the necklace she wears is like the one Melisandre does (it's a glamour, she just looks very good for her age). The actress that plays Kinvara is six years younger than the one who plays Melisandre so I kept that difference on a whim. Melisandre is currently about 395 years old but Kinvara only a spritely 389 and they've known each other quite a while (my explanation for why Melisandre was allowed such a free rein, is that she's not only powerful and skilled she's known the boss since before the Targaryan's invaded Westeros).

As per the books Melisandre was sold into slavery as 'Melony', or 'Lot Seven', a very long time ago and barely remembers being that girl. Kinvara knew her when she still thought of herself as Melony hence she knows her by that name.

The Faith of R'hllor is extremely relaxed about sex to the point they have Temple Prostitutes (I suspect it works better for raising money than handing around a collection plate). Having Ros dress up as Melisandre for her clients seemed all too possible, and potentially funny!

Anguy is the finest archer in Westeros. He won ten-thousand gold dragons in the Archery contest during the Tournament of the Hand and promptly squandered the lot. Thoros was also a frequent tourney participant, although in the melee competition in his case where he used his flaming sword (just the cheapest one he could find coated in Wildfire). In the books he once beat Sandor Clegane in a melee because the flaming sword just freaked poor Sandor out.

Last edited: Sep 13, 2022

379

Hotpoint

Sep 13, 2022

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moxas

Sep 13, 2022

#3,717

Hotpoint said:

The Great Other: I give them perfectly good food to survive the cold and dark and for all they follow shine for brains, apparently they've never learned to cook,

Aquod

Sep 13, 2022

#3,718

lol Melisandre POV is cute

kclcmdr

Kai The Kmpire!

Adviser (CrW)

Sep 13, 2022

#3,719

Both are getting investigated.. One for being tooo drunk... one for being tooo zealous...

They shall enjoy the merits of their actions or inactions...

Mel & Thoros deserve their most joyous contentious barbs & insults upon each other's persons.

Zanzetkuken

Sep 13, 2022

#3,720

Well, Thoros is in a slightly better position to bluff his way out. He did have to deal with the aftermath of a tyrant that got off on burning people to death, then survive the regime that overthrew that guy because he burned the wrong people to death. Not exactly fertile ground for conversion rather than reputation repair.

rx915

Sep 13, 2022

#3,721

Very petty of her but she's not having a good time since her new idol forced her to behave.

Old Soul

Sep 13, 2022

#3,722

Hotpoint said:

"Don't let her beauty lead you astray. That woman's quim is dark and full of terrors."

..... The connotation behind that feels like "naturally bumpy for her pleasure".

🤮

piccolo181

Sep 13, 2022

#3,723

Hotpoint said:

I'm nearly certain you meant "hand" and totally certain there should be a period after it. Westerosi idioms are not my strong suit.

Dragon Lord Syed 101

Sep 13, 2022

#3,724

Good chapter nice that Mel got a chapter honestly the books caused me to really grow to like her.

Hotpoint

Fanfic Writer

Sep 13, 2022

#3,725

piccolo181 said:

I'm nearly certain you meant "hand" and totally certain there should be a period after it. Westerosi idioms are not my strong suit.

Fingers on one head = none (it's sarcasm).

As for the punctuation I chart my own course there.

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Creative Writing

HBO WI: Joffrey from Game of Thrones replaced with Octavian from Rome

Thread starterHotpoint

Start dateJan 31, 2016

Tagsa song of ice and fire asoiaf crossover game of thrones rome westeros

First Prev151 of 153Next Last

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Asterion

People think I'm Crazy 'cause I make no Sense

Sep 13, 2022

#3,751

Gtopia said:

Yh, cuz the King bowing down to peasants and preistess' of a foreign religion would go over swimmingly.

If they tried anything and it got the Kings attention, given he's already ordered the red religion not to cause trouble in his city, all's that's gonna happen is Joffrey either killing them, or sending them back to Essos.

In fact your arguemnt works against itself. If the brothels are paying taxes to the crown, then the crown is gonna be more invested in protecting it. Smacking down a foreign religion from Essos trying to take away gold that could be going to the crown is the only outcome.

Click to expand...

Again, I don't think Melissandre or the other two would be the ones to cause a problem. If they don't pay the tithe the three would probably just go about their business and only Zea would likely have an issue with it. If they did talk to Joffrey and he tells them to drop it, they'd drop it. If anyone started something, it'd probably be their more zealous converts.

Subordinates attacking and killing people over a misunderstanding in a situation that the boss themselves brushes off is not a new thing. It happened in Ancient times, it happened in Medieval times, and it still happens today. Religion simply makes the mess more volatile.

If anyone started shit, I would think it'd be Westerosi born converts who take issue with the Ros' cosplay. Mel may not be nobility, but to her zealous followers she deserves all the respect and care the title of Lady conveys. They'd probably be outraged over her and Zea asking for only a tithe (something that to the Westerosi would probably been seen as ridiculously generous for the "insult") and being told to fuck off in response.

It's not like this situation hasn't happened in history. A King of England (William the Conqueror I think) had this peasant that was rather smart and gave good advice. As a reward he helped the peasant gain an in with the church, where he quickly rose up the ranks to be one of the highest men of the faith in the Kingdom. Only problem was that now, his boss was God, and God outranks the King. He soon began to criticize and lecture the monarch until durning one feast, a message arrived at court.

The priest had denounced the King, for one reason or another I don't recall, and as you'd expect the king took issue, ranting and raving over his friends betrayal and saying things he didn't mean in the heat of the moment. Three of his knights overheard his words and took matters into their own hands, tracking down the priest while he and others where in the middle of prayer, they stabbed and cut him multiple times, and once he fell they cut off the top of his skull and scooped his brains onto the floor.

TLDR: I don't think the Red Priests would make it an issue, I think it'd be their zealots that would. If the brothel doesn't want to pay a tithe that's fine, I'm simply thinking of a possible, if very unlikely, scenario resulting from it.

WritingfromtheVoid

Sep 13, 2022

#3,752

So far we're fleshing out the sidestories and whatnot of people around Joctavian.

Though I'm kind of wondering where the plot is picking, since we seem to be in a bit of an interlude with not much happening. I am wondering if we're going to get time skips to when Joffrey has better implemented his policies. Maybe show him dealing with a rebellion or two given his main goal should be to undermine the nobility.

F.I.M.M.98

Sep 13, 2022

#3,753

IndiWest said:

Is it weird that I have anime-fied pictures of Melisandre and Thoros enjoying normal everyday stuff in King's Landing and bickering like an old married couple in my head?

It sounds both very funny and wholesome.

Like, I can already imagine Melisandre alongside Joctavian until his last days, not accomplishing much in terms of conversions even after all those years. Either with Thoros alongside her or contemplating her "totally-not-married" memories with him.

Now, I'm not sure if this was mentioned before, but I believe Joctavian will always have the Faith in mind and while not taking them too seriously not doing anything to piss them off too much.

After all, it's easy to forget Romans were very superstitious, trying many things to figure out the Will of the Gods, truly believing in Magic, and pretty much believing that saying something "bad" to any God would get you punished in very...creative ways.

PS: Somehow, Melissandre must receive a MAPO TOFU, so she can experience its holy spice, and REJOICE.

Last edited: Sep 13, 2022

volrath77

Serial Editor

Sep 13, 2022

#3,754

I must say that this is a very amusing chapter. Definitely got me to chuckle at a few places. So can I presume that both Melisandre and Thoros are in big doo-doo dis time? (to quote Jar Jar Binks)

Last edited: Sep 13, 2022

rx915

Sep 13, 2022

#3,755

If it does reach his ears, he does need a new source of funding for his projects.

FaxModem1

He/Him

Sep 13, 2022

#3,756

I'm awaiting Melissandre's eventual zealotry getting her to practice the burning of whores, because she is one evil, crazy bitch fanatic who is only stopped from burning people alive because she can't get away with it....yet.

Praetor98

Sep 13, 2022

#3,757

FaxModem1 said:

Nah, pretty sure the Red Faith'll sue them. It'll last far longer and dog them for the rest of their lives, which in this case will be longer if she has them burned.

WritingfromtheVoid

Sep 13, 2022

#3,758

FaxModem1 said:

Melissandre's eventual zealotry getting her

That's just flanderization, Melisandre doesn't burn people for fun or for minor slights.

RazorSmile

ROU Once A Knife Missile

Sep 14, 2022

#3,759

I was under the impression that Thoros had genuine divinely-bestowed fire powers (at the very least, we know his resurrections are legit) -- and isn't wildfire green?

Gumbikhan

Limited POWER

NSFD Moderator

Sep 14, 2022

#3,760

RazorSmile said:

I was under the impression that Thoros had genuine divinely-bestowed fire powers (at the very least, we know his resurrections are legit) -- and isn't wildfire green?

Only later. If memory serves he wasn't strong in faith or the god didn't smile upon him until he tried to resurrect Dondarrion. That's when he truly started believing and trying. It also wasn't him as I recall but the Lord of Light reaching through him. Though I could be combining book and show a bit there.

The wildfire however was a thing he did with his swords.

kylind

Sep 14, 2022

#3,761

I have to admit that I didn't like this chapter too much. I know this is not the most serious fanfic, but this just felt too close to crack.

It sounded way too modern.

Templarknight92

Sep 14, 2022

#3,762

gadeel said:

There's a decent chance he'd side with Ros over Zēa because the former is a Seven-worshipping, tax-paying, Westerosi whore and who the heck is this foreigner to think she can impose her will on a subject of the crown?

That actually makes a lot of sense. Also she already declared him her prophesized messiah so I don't she'll "break up" with him over it.

FaxModem1 said:

Her religion has temple prostitutes

Last edited: Sep 14, 2022

Axolotl101

Him/He

Sep 14, 2022

#3,763

kylind said:

I have to admit that I didn't like this chapter too much. I know this is not the most serious fanfic, but this just felt too close to crack.

It sounded way too modern.

Ehhh, I think it's just a tonal shift.

After all, this feels like an Interlude not only in the Worm sense of "alternative POV" but also in the literary sense of "a breather with a different feel to the main story in between arcs".

Sure it's different to what we're usually used too, but I don't think it's that out there: after all, the basic premise makes sense (Lord of Light knows I wouldn't want Mel and Thoros being the only exposure foreigners get to my religion if I were a high priest) and I think a lot of the mannerisms can be explained away by the characters being Essosi at least, and centuries old inhuman assimars at best (yes I know we don't know what Mel is canonically, other than "not baseline human", but the DnD term fits).

Also, I think part of the dissonance might just be from how… peaceful and slice-of-lifey the fic is. It's odd for a child of two exceptionally brutal TV shows, but it does feel kind of right to me.

kclcmdr

Kai The Kmpire!

Adviser (CrW)

Sep 14, 2022

#3,764

kylind said:

I have to admit that I didn't like this chapter too much. I know this is not the most serious fanfic, but this just felt too close to crack.

It sounded way too modern.

you want serious? Less cranky?? Cracky? More medieval?

then thoust should read Baurus' Purple Days, Joffrey's time re-loops.

—> Purple Days (ASOIAF Joffrey Timeloop) (AU)

But seriously.. this is Westeros.. live by the sword, die by the sword.

There was The Call for the Grand Council . Joffrey vs Stannis.. mild banter but quite serious w the crown at stake.

Last edited: Sep 14, 2022

Omniscient1

Sep 14, 2022

#3,765

kclcmdr said:

you want serious? Less cranky?? Cracky? More medieval?

then thoust should read Baurus' Purple Days, Joffrey's time re-loops.

—> Purple Days (ASOIAF Joffrey Timeloop) (AU)

But seriously.. this is Westeros.. live by the sword, die by the sword.

There was The Call for the Grand Council . Joffrey vs Stannis.. mild banter but quite serious w the crown at stake.

Click to expand...

In all honesty, the crown is constantly at stake, even if the one currently wearing it doesn't think so. There are always scheming vassals, jealous family members, and foreign powers looking to expand their own domains at the expense of others. Or even simple bad luck that causes social upheaval. Whoever wears the crown can never let their guard down, lest it be snatched from them, possibly along with their life.

Cambion

Demon Warlock of Keystone

Subscriber

Thursday at 12:42 AM

#3,766

Goddamn fire worshippers

Walpole343

Tremble this is Rome

Thursday at 2:27 AM

#3,767

Seeing Melisandre and Thoros bickering like a married couple makes me wonder why they haven't made it legitimate yet. Oh yeah they're both religious figures probably sworn to celibacy to each other.

Vuthuockieu

Friday at 12:06 AM

#3,768

I missed Octavian's refreshingly cold perspective. Are these recent chapters meant to distract us from something important? There must be something going on. The water is too calm. And the lack of Octavian POV means I am swimming in the dark as regards his scheme. I know he will come into an argument with Tywin in the future and I was expecting some little hints about it in the Tywin chapter but it is hard to tell. The relationship seems fine to me.

I wonder if he as a king can convince the Citadel to give access to their historical records to outsiders. Some of the most fierce military commanders are great students of history. If Octavian can sponsor some bright kids then he will have his generals. Expecting Rob to handle most of your military power is not great in the long term because you should never make someone irreplaceable. Besides, getting all your military commanders from a single class can have dire consequences if you happen to threaten some privilege of said class. Han Xin was not rolling in cash or privileges before he became the greatest general of his era. So is Sun Tzu or Yi Sun Si or Yue Fei. The common people with the right amount of learning can do just as well as the nobility and even better. Another bonus is that I want a Willian Shakespeare. Oh, you can just imagine the propaganda that Shakespeare could make.

Rastamon

Vis Imperium Totus Galaxia

Moderator

He/Him/His

Friday at 9:42 AM

#3,769

Augustus had Virgil to write the grand propaganda epic Aeneid. Who's the bard skilled enough for that in Westeros?

Samwell Tarly after he's been trained and matured?

Ketos

Friday at 10:18 AM

#3,770

There is also the question of the Vale, what is going on there? Lysa had all her vassals vote against the Octavian.

I think, Ned sent someone (or more) to investigate the issue. How much of Little Finger dealing Octavian revealed? and he keeps him alive to get a leverage on Lysa? Before disposing him? That man isn't reliable, for now Octavian is in the capital he can keep him in check. However after he has to leave for various reasons. Who is left capable to keep a eye on his master of whispers and Little Finger? Skilled & loyal allies/minions aren't something he has.

kclcmdr

Kai The Kmpire!

Adviser (CrW)

Friday at 11:16 AM

#3,771

Rastamon said:

Augustus had Virgil to write the grand propaganda epic Aeneid. Who's the bard skilled enough for that in Westeros?

(( Samwell Tarly after he's been trained and matured? ))

If Jon Snow is at the Wall right now... mayhaps Sam Tarly has been force North to the Wall by his Dad.

If JOctavian still conferring with both Robb & Jon via Raven Missives? Especially Jon Snow?

Otherwise... only the folks that JOctavian sent North to investigate the rumored threats of undead warriors will pass the info back to JOctavian among with other info about the new Black Cloak Brothers of the Watch, no??

Threadmarks Part XXXIX New

Threadmarks

Hotpoint

Fanfic Writer

Yesterday at 3:43 PM

#3,772

Part XXXIX

----------

"Luck is where opportunity meets preparation."

Joffrey Augustus ("borrowed" from Seneca)

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The Red Keep - King's Landing – 299 AC

There were times that Renly Baratheon greatly disliked being the Master of Laws. True it accorded him a seat on the Small Council, providing him with a degree of power and influence throughout the Seven Kingdoms, not just within his own fief in the Stormlands, but if you were remotely diligent it cursed you with long hours at your desk and a headache-inducing amount of reading through dusty tomes of legal texts.

Today however was one of the occasions when it could be rather fun and diverting, he decided, as the witnesses and accused were brought before him. Not really a case significant enough to be brought before the Lord Protector, or even the Hand of the King, it was however of enough political import for him to rule on it personally.

It wasn't often that another member of the Small Council was there to provide witness testimony, albeit not in his official capacity as Master of Coin but rather as the owner of the brothel where the events in question took place.

Just seeing Baelish look so bloody uncomfortable, verging on embarrassed by the whole thing, made Renly's heart sing and it took considerable effort for the Master of Laws not to grin inanely through the whole proceedings.

Other than Renly nobody felt, or looked, particularly happy to be there. Stood next to Baelish was the red-headed whore that seemed to be at the centre of things, whilst the familiar figure of Thoros of Myr, the Red Priest looking uncharacteristically sober and alert, stood beside Melisandre of Asshai, Priestess or Witch depending upon who you talked to.

A young man managing to remain very good looking despite sporting a black eye stood off to one side near a pair of Goldcloaks from the City Watch, primarily there to provide testimony if needed but also stood ready in case the earlier fracas resumed and they had to intervene.

The whore, Ros, had already presented her side of the affair, as had Melisandre, and Baelish clearly wanted to speak up next which was why Renly called upon the Goldcloaks instead. "So when you two arrived to investigate what all the commotion was this 'Ros' had the Lady Melisandre in a headlock?" he checked, desperately trying to keep a straight face.

"No, My Lord" the younger of the two Goldcloaks responded. "Twas the other way round" he said. "I think she were scrappier than the whore expected her to be" he theorised. "Though seems like the Red Witch didn't prophesise things turning violent when she got there neither so there's that" he joked to some laughter in the room.

Renly noted that Thoros was one of those who laughed, earning himself a glare from Melisandre which caused him to stop and look a little guilty about it.

"You're not here to play the fool or give your opinions, just to present the facts as you know them" the older of the two Guardsmen chided his companion. "Apologies, My Lord. He's a new recruit and in training" the man explained, shaking his head sadly. "If he does it again I'll give him a clip around the ear" he vowed.

"You've been a Goldcloak a while longer I assume?" Renly asked, noticing that although he wore the same uniform as the other the sword scabbarded at his hip was of much finer quality.

"No, My Lord, been wearing this yellow blanket barely a week" the guardsman replied, sounding not too enthused about that. "At the King's request I'm on loan from the City Watch of Lannisport to teach the Goldcloaks how we do things. Ser Maxwell Payne at your service" he introduced himself formally with a slight bow.

Renly raised his eyebrows. While it wasn't entirely unheard of for poorer knights not wishing to seek service with a Great House, or sleep in a hedge, to join a City Watch it was unusual. Particularly for a knight from a House that was reasonably well-known. The Payne's were one of the principle vassals of House Lannister in the Westerlands, although by chance another one of them was currently employed at the Red Keep in a capacity that made him answerable to Renly himself. "A relation of the King's Justice Ser Ilyn Payne presumably?" he queried.

"Cousin" the knight responded in the affirmative though from his tone and expression Renly suspected there was no love lost there. Renly sympathised, you could choose your friends but not your relatives unfortunately, and while he was a fine taker of heads Ilyn Payne was an unpleasant man and by all accounts had been before the Mad King had his tongue cut out.

"Perhaps you would like to continue presenting testimony on behalf of the City Watch, Ser Maxwell?" Renly suggested.

"As you wish, My Lord" the knight agreed. "Upon investigating a reported commotion at the establishment in question, the new recruit here and myself discovered an ongoing fracas between a small number of the employees present and two clerics of the Faith of R'hllor. We immediately broke up the fight, such as it was, and after warning both parties that any resumption of violence would lead to arrests being made we inquired as to what had occurred and why."

"Very professional and thorough or you, Ser Maxwell" Renly observed.

Ser Maxwell shrugged. "The City Watch of Lannisport is perhaps a cut above what you may be used to here, My Lord" he responded flatly. "While there were discrepancies between the various versions of the events offered all agreed that the Red Priestess Melisandre of Asshai and the Red Priest Thoros of Myr came to voice objection to the prostitute, Ros, dressing up as Lady Melisandre for the titillation of her clients."

"Bollocks! She demanded money for permission to keep doing it" the whore spoke up sharply.

"To be precise she insisted that either the whore stop or else pay a tithe to a Temple of the Faith of R'hllor" Ser Maxwell explained in greater detail. "From what I was told it seems that unlike the Faith of the Seven their own religion is somewhat libertine as regards sexuality, and is actually known to employ temple prostitutes, so it wasn't so much a moral objection so much as one on administrative grounds."

Renly chuckled. "So you're saying that they wanted the brothel to purchase a letter of marque for sacrilege?" he responded with amusement. "How much is the license to commit other blasphemous behaviours I wonder?" he asked rhetorically.

"One hundred gold dragons for the right to commit bigamy perhaps?" Petyr Baelish suggested sardonically. "Although I must admit to finding their attitude towards the pleasures of the flesh, and their business acumen, more praiseworthy than some of their other religious notions such as the burning of statues of the Seven" he opined. "When making judgement you may wish to consider how the common people will react if you were to side with a foreign cult over a regular attendee of the Sept such as Ros here" he advised Renly knowingly.

"She's from Winterfell in the North" Thoros interjected. "They don't even worship the Seven up there" he pointed out.

"And you know this how?" Renly queried.

Thoros shrugged. "Let's just say it wasn't my first visit to that brothel" he explained. "Although Ros wasn't dressed up like a Priestess of R'hllor the last time I was there" he continued. "She wasn't really dressed at all to be honest."

Renly fought back the urge to chuckle again in an attempt to look like he was taking this all more seriously than he thought it deserved. "I'll take that statement as confirmation that your religion does not require it's priesthood to keep a vow of chastity."

"No but they do prefer a little more restraint. I'm not the best priest" Thoros admitted.

"I'll make a note you said that" a new voice interjected as a woman Renly was unfamiliar with, though he immediately noticed she was clad in vestments of the Faith of R'hllor similar to those of Melisandre and appeared to be of Yi Tish origin, entered. "Although I doubt anyone would regard you as an exemplar even without the confession" she continued, giving Thoros a look of disaproval. "My apologies, My Lord" the newcomer, bowing respectfully to Renly. "I am the Priestess Zēa of Jinqi, in Westeros on behalf of the High Priestess Kinvara, and in a way this is all my fault" she said, shaking her head ruefully.

"Your fault, My Lady?" Renly responded quizzically.

"Yes, I believe my compatriots were trying to demonstrate their devotion to our faith in a misguided attempt to curry favour with me" Zēa replied. "I was sent here from Volantis to investigate reports that they have brought the Faith of R'hllor into disrepute here in Westeros though when I became aware of a prostitute dressing up as a Red Priestess I voiced my intention to do something about that as well."

"So they decided to manhandle my employees before you could" Baelish responded, rolling his eyes. "Look at poor Olyvar's face" he bade Renly, indicating the attractive young man with him. "He deserves financial compensation for lost earnings until he's as handsome as he was before" the brothel owner continued. "I swear. It's as if the Faith Militant have returned only now wearing red instead of black" he complained.

"I wouldn't have thumped the sword-swallower if he didn't take a swipe at Melisandre after she got into it with the whore" Thoros defended his actions. "I don't care if you fuck men, that doesn't make you a woman yourself and men that hit women deserve a punch in the face" he told the male prostitute sternly, Renly noting that the guardsman, Ser Maxwell, was nodding his heartfelt agreement with such a policy. "And the Faith Militant would have burned down your bloody brothel" Thoros added to Baelish with a snort of derision.

Renly doubted that too many men with a penchant for other men would be too put off by the black eye, Olyvar was very handsome, but Baelish's point wasn't entirely without merit nonetheless. On the other hand neither was Thoros's justification.

"If it pleases the Master of Laws I must let him know that I had no intention of seeking redress in the manner my brother and sister in R'hllor did" Zēa informed Renly. "I was merely going to argue from example, in much the same way as law is argued on precedent" she said.

"Do tell, My Lady" Renly replied, intrigued where this might be going.

"As regards this Ros imitating the Lady Melisandre," Zēa began, "although this is not our country, and our faith only has a small following here, that does not mean that we are wrong to complain, nor to seek redress" she said. "Those who enjoy the more prurient kind of history may be aware that after several scandals the Princess Saera Targaryen was given over to the Silent Sisters by her father King Jaehaerys but that her reluctance to become a novice of the order was such that she fled Westeros for Lys" the priestess continued. "While in Lys she decided that the life of prostitution was for her and she henceforth earned her living in that fashion."

Renly sighed. "I am failing to see the relevance so far."

"The relevance is that she had taken her uniform as a novice of the Silent Sisters with her and would oft wear it whilst servicing those that sought her companionship" Zēa explained. "Given that Lys was beyond the authority of both the Iron Throne and the Faith of the Seven neither could do anything about it but needless to say both were scandalised beyond measure" she told him. "I'm certain that those who follow the Faith of the Seven would have found this insult to their religious traditions appalling and would have wished it to stop. Thus we merely request you to respect our beliefs and to be treated as you would have liked those in authority Lys to respect you."

"An actual princess dressed like a novice of the Silent Sisters?" Ros muttered to herself. "Girl must have been raking in the coin" she decided.

"I was a whore myself once" Zēa announced, indicating the tattoo on her cheek, "I have no issues with the woman there personally, nor with her choice of career for at least for her in this land it was a choice whereas I was sold into slavery, but I ask her to consider our feelings here" she said. "I know that thanks in large part to the ill-considered actions of the Lady Melisandre the Faith of R'hllor is not thought of highly in the Seven Kingdoms but I will remind you all that while she did indeed burn statues depicting the Seven she has apologised for it to the High Septon. Furthermore, again to reference your own history, when the Andals arrived here they burned the Weirwoods sacred to the Old Gods in much the same way because their conviction in the rightness of their cause was so strong. That didn't make it right, I doubt those in the North who still hold to the Old Gods have forgotten it, but it wasn't done out of malevolence it was done out of intolerance and a lack of respect for the beliefs of others."

Zēa sighed. "I am not going to request that Melisandre and Thoros be exonerated of any crimes they may have committed, if Lord Baelish insists upon monetary restitution I will make certain it is paid, I would merely ask that you accord our faith the respect you would hope yours to be treated with in another land" she asked sincerely.

"You quite clearly hail from the more diplomatic and politically adept branch of your religious order" Baelish observed wryly. "If you had come to my place of business to talk calmly like a civilised person instead of ranting we might have come to an agreement" he told Melisandre. "Perhaps we can negotiate a settlement of our dispute agreeable to all sides?" he asked Zēa, making a mental note to include an agreement that if he could procure a whore from Yi Ti she could also dress like the rather striking woman before him.

"Then perhaps this could be settled without anyone being thrown in a cell perhaps?" Renly asked hopefully. "I for one would prefer not to get involved in matters of religion, any religion, the law is already messy and complicated enough" he said. "I will however suggest that apologies be made on all sides and if I see you all here again there will be trouble."

Zēa walked over to Melisandre and leaned close to whisper in her ear. "Kinvara told me once that the Lord of Light cares more about results than the methods needed to obtain them" she said.

Melisandre narrowed her eyes and wisely opted not to respond that given Kinvara's rise to power had involved granting a considerable number of distasteful sexual favours over the years she could see why she might believe so.

"My apologies for eavesdropping outside for a few minutes but I didn't want to be seen until I was certain an amicable resolution was possible" King Joffrey announced himself, striding into the room with bodyguards in tow.

"Your Grace" Renly responded immediately, bowing as etiquette demanded, everyone else in the room following suit.

"Lord Renly" Octavian responded with a smile. "May I borrow you for a little while, I have something to discuss with you" he requested. "Perhaps in private, the room next door is empty, I checked."

Renly nodded his assent. "Of course, Your Grace" he agreed.

"It is an honour to meet you, Your Grace" Zēa interjected, bowing deeply to Octavian. "I am known as Zēa of Jinqi."

"So I was previously told by a very well informed personage" Octavian replied, smiling. Varys was good at relaying such information, at least when it suited him to Octavian suspected. "I was very impressed by your words, My Lady" he told Zēa. "I look forward to meeting you again" he told her honestly before leading Renly away.

"Wait outside please and keep yourselves and anyone else away from the door" Octavian ordered his bodyguards once they reached the empty room. He headed inside with Renly and closed the door behind them before groaning. "Uncle Renly. I could beat about the bush but it's best to get it over and done with" he began. "You're fucking Loras Tyrell and it's far from being a closely guarded secret" he stated flatly.

Renly's jaw dropped. "Your Grace…" he began to respond.

"I honestly could not care less on a personal level, if you prefer men to women that's entirely your own concern and I regard the prohibition the Faith puts upon it as inane" Octavian told him honestly, "but there is a political dimension to consider here. Not only would people strenuously disapprove, potentially harming the reputation of our family, you also open yourself to being blackmailed which is an extremely dangerous position for the Master of Laws to find himself in."

"You're trying to force me off the Small Council" Renly responded part in surprise, partly in anger. This was the old vile Joffrey returned he decided.

"No!" Octavian replied curtly. "I want you to promise me that if anyone tries to blackmail you you'll let me know so I can deal with them."

Renly was now even more confused by the turn of events. "Deal with them? How?" he eventually asked.

"In ways that the Master of Laws should be kept ignorant of but a man with several thousand armed men under his command can readily arrange" Octavian explained vaguely. "The only reason I'm here now is because I overheard a snide remark about you and Loras between two men of the City Watch earlier today so it's not just the likes of Varys and Baelish that know anymore."

"Damn" Renly muttered to himself. "You already knew I assume?"

"If you thought you were being clandestine I'm afraid you weren't, although to be fair I am cleverer and more observant than most" Octavian replied, less than humbly. "Just be grateful father was neither, he might have fallen into a rage and beaten you bloody at the very least. Of course after he calmed down, assuming you were still alive at that point, I'm guessing he would have wanted to make sure that between the two of you Loras was the girl and if he wasn't then you would have taken another beating."

Some days went very differently than you expected them to, Renly thought to himself. "You honestly don't care about me and Loras?" he found himself asking.

"I don't even care if you are the girl" Octavian replied evenly. "Just don't let it fuck up us running the Seven Kingdoms like they should be run" he implored. "Regardless of that, in the longer term neither you nor Loras can get pregnant and you need an heir to take over the Stormlands so if you want my advice marry Margaery Tyrell and put a child in her. At least if you're wed to Loras's sister it'll be easy to justify why he's always around" he suggested. "Does she know about you and her brother?"

"Yes" Renly confirmed. "They're very close."

"Then expect a life of them competing for your attention, if not your affection" Octavian told him. "If you and Margaery can produce a daughter, as well as a son to inherit Storm's End, I'll undertake right now to wed her to my oldest son with Sansa. As the gods are my witness you'll be father to the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms one day" he vowed. "Assuming you can stay off one sibling long enough to get the other one pregnant that is" he added wryly.

"The Tyrells would be pleased about that" Renly rightly observed.

Octavian smiled. "I wouldn't be doing it for them, Uncle Renly" he replied, trying to sound as magnanimous and loyally familial as he could.

That's another one in my pocket, Octavian thought to himself with satisfaction. He would have asked Renly's opinion on the new Red Priestess but he doubted he was entirely the right person to ask regarding female attractiveness.

----------

Note from the Author:

Melisandre and Thoros have an interesting day, though not as interesting as Renly's. Olyvar was a male employee at Littlefinger's brothel that ended up rather "close" with Loras Tyrell while spying for Baelish in canon. Here of course Renly is still alive so those circumstances won't arise.

A cameo appearance of Ser Maxwell Payne from my other GoT story. In this universe Valkyr was never discovered so his wife and daughter lived and he's consequently a very ordinary knight, though still working for the Lannisport City Watch (don't worry if you haven't read it , he'll not appear in this story again).

Saera Targaryen led a very interesting and rebellious life going from Princess to Silent Sister to ending up a successful prostitute in Lys. I doubt either the king nor the Faith appreciated her antics very much.

Melisandre burned the statues of the Seven on Dragonstone, millennia earlier the Faith of the Seven burned the Weirwoods of the Old Gods. There's a lot of fire about, and ice of course.

One of Octavian's best friends Maecenas was bisexual in both the show and real life. Given the society he came from the Faith of the Seven regarding homosexuality as they did, as in a sinful abomination, likely seemed very strange to him. That isn't to say he wouldn't use Renly's relationship with Loras to his own ends.

Last edited: Yesterday at 4:14 PM

328

Hotpoint

Yesterday at 3:43 PM

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Praetor98

Yesterday at 3:58 PM

#3,773

Oh shit, Melisandre got into a catfight.

WritingfromtheVoid

Yesterday at 4:02 PM

#3,774

Zea being the voice of reason was not what I expected.

Sir Omega

Lord of Spectators

Yesterday at 4:07 PM

#3,775

Romans were relatively ok with homosexuality - as long as the Roman citizen wasn't the penetrated party.

Then, it became against the law.

Still, it probably depended on the status and circumstances. A common legionary could be executed for it (although, there could be acceptable mitigating circumstances), while a senator got a few snide comments and an unflattering nickname (Edit: in that particular case, he was nicknamed Atticus, because he sometimes liked to take vacations to Attica, in Greece and, supposedly, sample the local fare: the locals).

Last edited: Yesterday at 5:26 PM

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