Tim_Saian

Hahaha. Glad to have you back and hope you enjoyed the binge!

Hehehe. More kingdom building time for Kirigakure dear <3

Okai, just suffered a blackout and I'm not even sure chapters are gonna be out today. But I think the issue with why you're not seeing things the way they are is because you're the reader and you have the context of both sides. Konoha doesn't know shit. Konoha can't do shit. Konoha is ass right now. I'm done trying to explain why that is. Hope you enjoy the next chapters whenever they come out.

Who is he? Are you kidding? He’s the Mizukage—the one who went out of his way to save lives, warn people about the threat, point them toward the Rinnegan/Nagato, and remain open to allying with other shinobi nations despite a long history of grudges. It seems like you have a higher opinion of Konoha than our MC, despite nearly 200 chapters meticulously building up to this moment. I remember when people used to ask, “Why doesn’t Yagura just go to Konoha, spill everything, and form an alliance?” Because progression, that’s why. We’re finally at the point where the seeds the MC has sown can be reaped. If you don’t feel Yagura has earned this, I have to wonder if you’ve really been paying attention to his growth, political maneuvering, and the rapport he’s built over his one-year reign. At this point, Konoha owes him more than he owes them. And like I’ve said before—he’s under no obligation to tell them anything. In fact, I’m not even sure OG (canon) Yagura would if he knew. And if these three Kage-level shinobi—who you keep hyping up—can’t afford to give a single jutsu (which you’ve also argued is common and easily used), then seriously, what the hell is Konoha even worth as an ally?

Lmao, Itachi? Really? Haha, c’mon, man. Itachi is a prodigy. If you said someone like Ebisu's or even Asuma’s level was casually using Shadow Clones, maybe I’d entertain the point—but be for real. Itachi is an S-rank shinobi whose entire arsenal revolves around high-level, chakra-draining techniques. This is the same guy who debuted the Susano’o. He’s not a great example if you’re trying to argue that Shadow Clones were widely or easily used. As for Ao, he wasn’t hiding anything. That patch is a seal—similar to the Hyuga’s curse mark—that activates when his Byakugan is threatened. By this point, Ao has built a reputation as the Byakugan Killer and is in Bingo Books. His Byakugan is a major asset to Kirigakure, meaning it’s protected from being stolen, destroyed, or misused. He’s not keeping secrets; he’s safeguarding a resource. And look, it’s fine if you don’t think Yagura has things under control, but he does. Maybe I should’ve made it clearer, but the chapter starts with him outright saying NO to those three and ends with him demanding the Shadow Clone jutsu. The chapter is literally called Kage-Level Demands, and only Yagura’s demands are met. This isn’t about raw strength—it’s about politics, leverage, and information. I’ll be sure to add more obvious “face-slap” moments in the future to make the power dynamics even clearer. That said, I appreciate the discussion! This kind of debate is exactly what we get into on my Discord, and there are no hard feelings unless explicitly stated. You’ve read this far, so I know you’re enjoying the story—thanks for sticking around! ^-^

Ah right, I feel you. Shadow Clone is the base jutsu, and Multi Shadow Clone is just an extreme application of it. It’s not a separate jutsu, just like Giant Rasengan isn’t a brand-new technique—it’s still a Rasengan, just with more chakra. Some jutsu require strict formulas to function, like Edo Tensei and most Fuinjutsu, but something like this is just about chakra control and reserves. Emphasis on reserves cuz that's what makes it a Kinjutsu that even Kage level folk use reservedly and that's why I made it at least an A-rank here instead of the B-rank cuz imo that just don't make sense. Classifying a B-rank as a Kinjutsu when most Kinjutsu are S-rank minimum smh.

He is a Kage. The Mizukage. The political implications of forcing a world leader to do anything are major— and that’s without even considering how difficult it would be to make him talk. Konoha has no real leverage to force Yagura into submission, and expecting otherwise ignores the political weight of his position. A Kage is not a chump. As for the Byakugan, that’s literally a war trophy. How exactly do you expect Konoha to reclaim it? Even in canon, Ao kept it for years— all the way into Boruto's time. And let’s not forget, he’s standing right there with the Mizukage. Hurt or not, Yagura isn’t about to let something like that slide. (The Nine Tails thing? That was a joke.) Now, regarding the timeline— it’s already gone off the rails. Meta knowledge or not, Yagura has no way of predicting the next Hokage. Even if he assumes it’s Hiruzen, why would he give up his leverage? The idea that Konoha is “letting him go” is completely backward— he’s the one forcing them to get their affairs in order and return when they have a proper leader capable of negotiating. He’s already shown willingness to cooperate, but if he plays all his cards now, what does he have left in the next round? This isn’t just about survival— it’s politics. On Shadow Clones: I don’t know where you got the idea that “many” Jounin know it. Even Kakashi— who does know the jutsu— rarely uses it. And just to clarify one last time: Shadow Clone is the technique. Multi Shadow Clone is just a high-volume application of it. Finally, why wouldn’t Hiruzen be diplomatic? That’s literally what he’s known for. Lashing out at a foreign power that has done nothing but offer aid— especially when they’re also victims of the same enemy— would be an incredibly reckless move. He gains nothing from unnecessary hostility. And to answer your other comment: Kirigakure saw Yagura leave to meet Minato. If, in some alternate timeline, Yagura were to die before he returned, their first assumption would be that Minato killed him— and that’s an instant war. If Konoha tried to explain that “Uchiha Madara” or someone similar was responsible, do you really think that would make a difference? The Uchiha are a Konoha clan. Madara was a Konoha founder. At the end of the day, Kiri’s response wouldn’t be a debate— it would be war.

Mmm, no, "plenty" of shinobi do not know shadow clone jutsu, especially not in this time period. And Multi Shadow Clone is just Shadow Clone jutsu used repeatedly, sick of explaining that. More unrealistic than a Nine Tailed Fox? Iono. But Hiruzen has the most political power on scene and Minato spoke well enough about his interactions with Yagura before Yagura came in unexpectedly to help save/minimize damage to their village. Putting aside that Hiruzen isn't the type to backstab people that help him, Kirigakure knows that Yagura went to meet Minato soo...their Kage not returning would be a pretty big casus belli for a 4th Ninja War. Think that covers everything.

Yeah, cuz there's literally no difference between them. I'm not sure if you're getting what I'm saying. Shadow Clone is the jutsu, Multi Shadow Clone is just a way to use the jutsu. Do you understand? Like, if you master fireball jutsu and spit out two fireballs or a hundred, does that mean you're using a different technique? Multi fireball jutsu? No. You're still using the same damn technique just multiple times. Shadow Clone is chakra intensive and like you said, most users only create one or up to four depending on their reserves. You can consciously split your chakra into how many times you want to use the technique, Chakra Control is a concept and its applied to the execution of techniques. Naruto is the only one that spams an army of Clones because it's been his jutsu since day one(Plot to protect MC's specialness) and he has the chakra for it. Think about it, in the war arc Tobirama uses shadow clone and this is an Edo Tensei form, so why didn't he just create an army of himself like Naruto does? Why doesn't Sasuke or Kakashi or Hiruzen or Hashirama? The answer is that unlike Naruto they are conscious of their very real limits and have trained to use Shadow Clone strategically and not as an army of fodder. The answer is also Plot. Shadow Clone jutsu is the technique. Multi Shadow Clone is a way to use the technique.

That's actually a misconception tbh. There is no discernable difference between "Shadow Clone" and "Multiple Shadow Clone" Characters capable of using the technique are seen creating up to two or four at a time. But only Naruto is seen capable of spamming Shadow Clones the way he does and in fact, he's the only one that ever says "Multiple Shadow Clone" even Tobirama doesn't. And here's where it gets confusing and frankly redundant. In the episode he learns the jutsu it is described/titled as "Multiple Shadow Clone" but when he executes it and produces a shit ton of Shadow Clones to beat up Mizuki, all Naruto says is "Shadow Clone" and this switheroo of the word "Multiple" happens all the time throughout the show and possibly throughout the Manga. Finally, if you take the word "Multiple" as its literal definition then there's no reason why other characters that do produce multiple shadow clones(as in more than two) can't be said to be using the jutsu. TLDR- the only difference is Naruto being OP. (Multiple)Shadow Clone is a Kinjutsu.